Friday, April 30, 2010

Biggest baby-killing center to open

Magister Christianus has the story.

In case you're forgetting, this is the death mill that looks so startlingly like the ancient centers of human sacrifice of the old pre-Christian world:


Abortion mill:

Mayan temple of human sacrifice:



There is no doubt in my mind that this so-called "clinic" is going to be a center of demonic power, and that the souls of anyone connected with it in any way are in terrible jeopardy. Such a lust for the blood of the innocent is one of the most persistent markers of the presence of evil.

UPDATE: Magister Christianus reminds me that he has posted a countdown clock on his blog to remind people to pray as the "clinic" prepares to open, which it will on May 11. Please pray that God will defeat the evil that is planned for this place.

14 comments:

Siarlys Jenkins said...

Although I am sceptical of the entire notion of "demonic power," and observe no "lust" for the "blood of the innocent," I have considerable doubt about a facility such as this one. There is nothing intrinsically beneficial about abortion, and no cause to mass produce the procedure. There are times when an individual woman might find it an appropriate individual decision. I remain firmly opposed to state intervention to make the decision for her by coercion. A facility of this size and scope will inevitably generate financial pressure to perform abortions to pay the mortgage, so to speak, which is way off base.

I have read that Nebraska is considering a law to require an explicit written diagnosis before a third trimester abortion can be performed. This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Roe v. Wade carefully balanced the right of a pregnant woman to be free from state interference with the increasingly distinct independence of the life growing within her. In the third trimester, the state has authority to prohibit abortion unless a woman's life or health are endangered. Requiring documentation and a clear factual basis for finding such danger to exist is perfectly reasonable.

Magister Christianus said...

Erin, my reason for installing the countdown clock was to remind us all to pray diligently, fervently until the proposed opening. I hope that the word can spread.

As for demonic power and lust for innocent blood, that is exactly what is operating here. Many think that these dark forces look like something out of "Carrie" or "Nightmare on Elm Street." That is a characterization and is utterly false. The demonic powers look quite nice most of the time. They look like us. We must never forget that Lucifer was an angel of light. What better way to hide his deceptions?

Siarlys Jenkins said...

Those who know the original Hebrew best (I cannot claim such expertise) assure me that Lucifer Son of the Morning was a poetic reference to Nebucchadnezzar, king of Babylon, not to be connected in any way with (a) Satan, (b) the serpent in the garden, (c) Ba'al Zevuv, a pun on the Canaanite title of their leading idol.

It seems to me that if there are demonic powers in the world, then one of three things must be true:
1) God deliberately created these demonic powers,
2) These demonic powers came into existence, not by the will of God, but with his acquiesence,
3) God is helpless to eradicate these demonic powers.

That would call into question either that God is good, or that God is omnipotent. I decline to accept either of these assertions.

A friend raised in the Coptic church forwarded to me a story of a professor who tried to provoke a number of his students, all of whom insisted that God made all that is, seen and unseen, with the repartee, then God must have created evil. Finally, a student who had remained silent asked the professor, "Is there such a think as darkness?" The answer is, no, darkness is merely the absence of what we call light. "Is there such a thing as cold?" No, cold is merely the absence of the molecular vibrations we know as heat. "Is there such a thing as evil?" No, evil is absence of what we call God. The student's name was Albert Einstein.

It may be a semantical distinction, but I think it is more than that. If someone were to say, this facility will be a black hole of emptiness, chilling the souls of those who work there, it would be an arguably true statement. It would even be arguably true within the framework I initially presented in my first comment. The marriage bed is quite distinguishable from a mass orgy, and an individual choice is quite distinct from assiduous preparations for mass performance of any procedure.

LarryD said...

1) God deliberately created these demonic powers,
2) These demonic powers came into existence, not by the will of God, but with his acquiesence,
3) God is helpless to eradicate these demonic powers.


1) No - God did not deliberately create these demonic powers.

2) They came into existence through the exercise of their own free will. God permitted it, but did not ordain it.

3) God is not helpless to eradicate them - He has chosen not to. Again, He will never act in a way that infringes upon our exercise of free will. We can either freely choose to love Him or not. The existence of these "demonic powers" serves to stand as a reminder of the consequences of choosing to not love God.

Rebecca said...

He created all of the angels, and some of the angels fell. The only reason people think that God's allowing them to continue to exist after their fall (or to continue to plague man) would negate His goodness or his omnipotence, is that they think "If I were God, and could do anything, I would not let that be". I feel the same way, but that's where Faith comes in--we know by Faith (and even by reason) that God will not allow an evil except to bring about a greater good. The fact is, we see the evil and its horror, and we cannot imagine the greater good which could possibly be coming out of it. But Faith is stronger than imagination, so we affirm the existence of demons, and we affirm both God's goodness and his omnipotence.

Rebecca said...

BTW the same reasoning is true of all the evil we see in the world, regardless of whether the source is demonic or human. People can more easily deny the demonic because it is invisible; I don't think it is easy to deny the existence of horrible evils in human affairs.

Siarlys Jenkins said...

There is no question that evil committed by HUMANS is an exercise of our free will, as is much good that humans do. But by what "exercise" of "their own free will" did demonic powers "come into existence"? We did not create ourselves, so says the Psalmist, not to mention Genesis. After we were created, after God pronounced the result "very good," we were able to exercise the free will we were created with, being made in God's own image.

Nothing can create itself by an exercise of its own free will -- it does not exist until it either is made, or by some natural process (inherent in a create universe) it spontaneously grows and comes into being. So demonic powers, if they exist, were either the result of God's plan, or the direct result of HUMAN exercise of free will, in which case, they are dependent upon us, not a power over us.

As to "fallen angels," that is a common Christian theme, but there is no Biblical basis for it, particularly not in the Old Testament. The Hebrew word "malachim" refers to extensions of God which no more exercise free will than my arm exercises free will independent of myself. It appears to me that this notion was the result of enthusiastic Greek converts trying to rationalize a Christian context for their own Olympian idols. Instead of understanding that these were "the work of men's hands" having no reality at all, they contrived that the godlets were "fallen angels" deliberately leading their pagan ancestors astray.

If you have faith in the existence of demons, there is no proof to show you wrong, or right. I find nothing in such a belief which strengthens faith.

Rebecca said...

Hi Siarlys. I'm not sure which one of us you're addressing, me or Larry or both...but on my account (and I think Larry would agree; I think he meant that they came into being *as evil* by their own will) God did create the angels, and some of them did fall, due not to some existing thing God created, but as Einstein and you point out, due to a lack in them.

What I am addressing is *not* the Biblical basis of angels/demons --that is an argument which I'm probably not up for, and I'm not really all that concerned about, since I'm not a sola scriptura type--but on the compatibility of demons or any kind of evil with the notion of God's omnipotence and goodness. My point, which is a limited one, is that the existence of demons and of other evils is compatible with God's omnipotence and His goodness because He allows evils for the sake of a greater good which he brings about through allowing them. "O happy fault, which merited for us so great a savior." It is difficult to grapple with because it boggles the human imagination, and the evils are to us so much more present than the great goods which are and which are to come, but (thank God) Faith is much larger than the tiny box our minds fit into, even the most brilliant minds.

Rebecca said...

I'm wondering now if maybe you are mistaking what we believe about demons...are you thinking we think they're pure evil or something? Just to clarify--they have angelic nature, but their wills are turned away from God. Much like an evil man, but their wills are fixed forever, as an evil man after death. And of course they are much more powerful than a man, because of their angelic natures, and they have a much greater capacity for evil, because of the greatness of their nature. Anyway, what takes a lifetime of making choices in time and space, for a man, took for the angels only an instant, because angels live in aeveternity (sort of like eternity) rather than existing linearly through time. So at the moment the choice was presented, the angels who chose God immediately received the beatific vision, and this was all instantaneous with their very creation, whereas the angels who chose to reject God, chose in a full, final way and thus chose to be eternally separated from Him. This is the teaching affirmed by the Church, passed down through the centuries, and is de fide. I'd have to think and study more about whether there is much Scriptural discussion about this.

Siarlys Jenkins said...

Rebecca, I was responding to both you and Larry. I'm not going to try to talk you out of your belief in fallen angels or demons. I lean in a limited way toward the sola scriptura viewpoint -- if there is no authority at all, then we're all spouting opinion and speculation. But, I'm certain that a good deal has been lost in transmission, translation, and passage between different cultures. Greek understanding was not the same as Jewish, even the earliest Jewish Christians, and the Roman Empire had its own influences, as did the Germanic and Celtic cultures. I find it useful to ascertain what the custodians of the original Hebrew tradition can clarify.

If you accept the canon and princes of a church as authority, then that's your premise, and I can't argue you out of it by posing a different premise. I can only explain my own faith. I'm more of a John Wycliffe Protestant than a Lutheran, and as I also lean toward Arminian thinking, vs. Calvinist, I'm intrigued by the cross-connection with a fair amount of Catholic teaching. On the subject of demons, you may actually have more in common with Calvinists and Pentecostals. But somewhere back there, we all rely on the same Savior.

Rebecca said...

yeah, but you seemed somehow to be saying that the belief in demons is contrary to holding that God is both good and omnipotent. That's what I was trying to address.

Siarlys Jenkins said...

I find the logic sound that the existence of demonic powers would, if I accepted it, call into question either that God is good or that God is omnipotent. That's the main reason I doubt they exist.

As far as I understand your position, there is no contradiction, because God has his own good reasons for creating quasi-eternal beings with free will to choose for or against God. You paint a plausible picture, but to the extent we are debating the truth of the matter, what evidence is there that this is a true picture? I can see no objective authority -- not even a revealed divine authority or a metaphysical one -- for your explanation.

Rebecca said...

Siarlys I don't understand why your objection doesn't apply to humans as well? Why is there this problem specifically with demons?

Siarlys Jenkins said...

Well, we know that humans exist. We don't, in the same sense, know that demons exist. We know by faith and revelation that there is a God, who created all that is, seen and unseen. We don't know, by our own senses, or by faith and revelation, that this God also created demons, or that this God created a separate category of beings, the ones we have named angels, or that some of those angels fell.

If he did, why are the first three chapters of Genesis not explicit about it? Where does this notion of demons or fallen angels come from?

And on a separate note, getting back to the original point, why don't we also discuss the proposed new law in Nebraska?